Curse

reetkever · Jan 14, 2007, 08:28 PM // 20:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

Bull's strike is a wonderful knockdown for kiting foes, also does some decent damage too. I've never seen anything that could even replace sprint/rush on my warrior if I decide to run it.

Also, GOD FORBID YOU HAVE TO BRING RES ON YOUR BAR

Bull's Charge doesn't give a speed boost so I'll end up following him without hitting him. Unless I take a running skill which still gets me to 3 standard skills.
IMO, only skill that should be on everyones skillbar should be res, and maybe even without that, professions should be able to function normally. And my warrior isn't build to be a kiting clown.

GJ A-net, better make a crippling profession in chap 4 -.-'

Kit Engel · Jan 14, 2007, 08:48 PM // 20:48

Actually, Bull's Charge does give you a speed boost. You're thinking of Bull's Strike, which you can use very well with sprint or rush. That's just two skills.

El Dirigible · Jan 14, 2007, 08:52 PM // 20:52

God, people are so bad at this game, so lazy, so desperately in need of a clue.

Kiting mobs are perfectly fine, because it's the most perfectly sensible thing to do if you're getting hacked and slashed to pieces. If you're the kind of warrior that likes to sit on his Dolyak sig all day and wait for the monsters to come to him to get butchered, guess your time's up. If you're one of those warriors that put 8 different attack skills on their bar with zero utility, guess your time is up too. This game is meant to be, and should always aim to remain challenging. In 95% of the PvE experience, it utterly fails to be so. And here you are, trying to get rid even of these last traces of challenge from it.

If you're melee, and you need to get something's that running to die, here's the options available for you:

1. Bring a speed buff (e.g. rush, sprint, charging strike, enraging charge, dash, any of the million dervish enchants and stances that make you run like you're wearing Adidas).
2. Bring KDs (e.g. any of the hammer ones, bull's strike, shove, horns of the ox).
3. Bring snares (e.g. YAA, crippling sweep, axe rake, hamstring, caltrops).
4. Bring shadowstep skills (e.g. death's charge, shadow of haste, AOD, shadow prison, and so on and on).
5. If you have none of those, you can always just count on your team's midline to use ranged skills to take them down (you weren't be trying to do this with 6 warriors and 2 monks by any chance, were you?)

PvE is so easy because you can prepare ahead for everything the monsters will be able to throw at you, since their skillbars are the same, and so are their tactics. Now, if even though you know they might try to run around you still don't make sure your team can rely on any of the above options, well, you don't deserve to beat those mobs, simple as that; you're bad at the game and you shouldn't get to finish it. It's like in any FPS. If you're counting on finishing the game with that pocket knife or that water gun, what right do you have to whine about them being insufficient to win? Bring out the chainsaws, bring out the machine guns, bring out the rocket launchers. As the game gets harder, you also need to get better, you need to select more powerful weapons (skills), you need to learn different tactics. Otherwise they might as well just delete everything after presearing, and we can go back there killing level 5 charr forever, right?

Do you remember the gear trick? How the mobs would just pile up on the tank, and you could just nuke and SS and barrage and trap them to death, and they would stubbornly just remain there to die, still trying to hack away at that tank? Well, that's where it seems you're trying to take this game again, back to mindless idiotic AI. If you just want to destroy things with no brain, grab your wallet, find the closest store, buy a kilo of lemons, take them home, place them on the table, then proceed to squish them into a pulp. Feel free to boast about how awesome you are while you do that. Who needs to kill charr in a videogame, when you can kill lemons that don't kite IRL!

Verek · Jan 14, 2007, 09:06 PM // 21:06

History tells us that armour and weapons went hand in hand, so we had very heavily armour knights, with the opposition having very heavy weapons to counter this.

Then, times moved on and we get Rapiers with lightly armoured combatants and so on…etc

What we don’t have is the warrior class designed to kill squishes, now we might cry;’ but this is game and not the real world,’ but for me there must be some basis in history to keep the illusion alive.

JYX · Jan 14, 2007, 09:18 PM // 21:18

Clutching at straws tbh. BTW there were no historical basis for throwing fireballs.

Sekkira · Jan 14, 2007, 09:50 PM // 21:50

Holy crap guys, look how awesome I am

Shendaar · Jan 14, 2007, 10:00 PM // 22:00

lol @ the people that can't deal with kitting AI. There are hundreds of skills to deal with kitting foes. People need to drop the "Tank" mentality and start dealing some damage.

Gizmo Loco · Jan 14, 2007, 10:03 PM // 22:03

Wow. I can't believe this is even a debate. Complaining that you can no longer bring 8 attack skills? What a shame. I hope Anet arent going to make it so hard as to actually have to bring UTILITY skills. God forbid having to bring a paragon wih crippling anthem instead of his Deep Wound spear attack. God forbid bringing Pin Down instead of Power Shot. Or even - god forbid having to change secondary proffession to something more useful than Mending!

Seriously. PvE is so retarded as far as builds go. You could run 8 capture signets and still beat the game with 7 henchies. Heck, I virtually did with my paragon. 4 cap sigs and a hard res I never needed, plus 1 spear attack and 2 shouts. So for those complaining that you can no longer bring a retard bar - stop complaining. Get a good skillset. Get good at the game. Don't complain when an enemy acts intelligently. It's like the Wammo's in RA - "omfg noob runenr stop running away" - yes, because I'm going to stand still just to be nice to you aren't I?

manitoba1073 · Jan 14, 2007, 10:15 PM // 22:15

Funny i always thought griefers and runners were hated in PvP, Now you guys expect people to put up with it in PvE. Lets get it right for once, not fun in PvP sure isnt fun in PvE, but if this is what u call kiting. You need a new brain. I had a good pix of it but deleted it, so ill describe your so called kiting behave your.

Example 1- As your group approaches an enemy group 2 aggro bubbles away there monk decides its time to kite straight to your group while leaving there group behind.

Example 2- As your group engages another group there monk kites past your group leaving there group on the other side with no healling.

Yeap if you call that kiting you have problems. This is what the So-Called kiting we are seeing.

Gizmo Loco · Jan 14, 2007, 10:27 PM // 22:27

English please?

And no. Kiting is not griefing. Griefing is 8 skills designed to make you run around and live until people quit out, while doing 0 damage. Kiting is simply movement for the mitigation of damage used between casting spells or attacking.

Grais · Jan 14, 2007, 11:48 PM // 23:48

Funny there was a call made at the start of this thread for someone to make a video of this so called retarded AI behaviour. Yet no one did, the vid posted is of a Guild runing around their guild hall to the Benny Hill theme, but no vids of this behaviour, that if it is so prevalent should be easy to catch on video.
So lets see it.

kazjun · Jan 15, 2007, 12:04 AM // 00:04

Ah, you do realise that so called griefing is only really in RA where you got no clue what team you may get right? And if you don't bring a snare/degen/speed buff than the chances of someone in your team having one is close to zero. In actual pvp/gvg you'll find that if you do no damage and can only run, that we'll kill all your team mates and then you'll find a war train on your ass, all with speed buffs.

And as for pve warriors losing there precious 1 skill slot for sprint or being forced to go sword for crip, well axe can crip, and there are water ele spells that can snare just as well with like close to no points in water at all. And you don't even need to do that. Bring Devona, charge used to be the most useless pve warrior elite unless you were running, well its real useful now.
And you shouldn't even need that. I'm a warrior, my heroes are warriors and I never leave home without Devona. No pve caster should live for 20 secs if he's targeted. If he does, then maybe you may want to change your attribs and your heroes so they have more than 9 in there weapon attribs. No pve primary warrior should have less than 14 in their weapon, if you don't then you got no one to blame that you can't kill them.

Alya · Jan 15, 2007, 12:10 AM // 00:10

No need to accuse the people who don't like the current kiting AI in being retarded, incompetend and unable to devise a functional skillbar.

I am a good player. I am a good warrior, ranger, monk, elementalist and mesmer. Haven't played enough with other classes to say that I am good at them. But when I play my classes, I am good.

I just hate this kiting. OK? And my sincere hatred does not have anything in common with my ability or inability to cope with it. I HATE IT, just that.

yeah_hi · Jan 15, 2007, 12:30 AM // 00:30

I find the new kiting a challenge, and it forces me to break out of tried and tested builds and start experimenting with new skills... kinda breathes new life into things, y'know?

However, I absolutely hate it when a henchie kites away mid-battle and manages to aggro yet another nearby group. Being able to flag them helps, but it stil happens from time to time.

The perma-aggro behaviour of some mobs, or the thing where they somehow spot you from across the other side of the map and come running? Could do without that.

CyberNigma · Jan 15, 2007, 05:07 AM // 05:07

I think many people just ask the question where the game they so loved that first year went.

Akaraxle · Jan 15, 2007, 08:12 AM // 08:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuckman Joney

The AI in NF is stupid..the medics just continuously run in circles and cause the utmost agitation!...It seems that the AI can somehow run faster than us and thus, we can't catch them...Like for instance:

Im doing the quest Following the Trail where you have to kill 6 grps of corsairs with 4...4 low lvld heroes...the corsairs continuously run in circles and have already caused me to try it for the 45th time! I mean what the heck! Couldnt they turn down the "smartness" of the AI's a little to save us the hassle of continuously running in circles to kill that ONE AI that needs to be killed?

YOU NEED MORE NUKING.

Gizmo Loco · Jan 15, 2007, 08:22 AM // 08:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alya

No need to accuse the people who don't like the current kiting AI in being retarded, incompetend and unable to devise a functional skillbar.

I am a good player. I am a good warrior, ranger, monk, elementalist and mesmer. Haven't played enough with other classes to say that I am good at them. But when I play my classes, I am good.

I just hate this kiting. OK? And my sincere hatred does not have anything in common with my ability or inability to cope with it. I HATE IT, just that.

If your good, you wouldnt need to worry about it.

Example bar you use on your warrior?

RotteN · Jan 15, 2007, 08:57 AM // 08:57

i like the kiting, i'm used to it anyway, i spend most of my time chasing people in GvG

i just bring a snare and a speedboost, and i'm set.

As long as pve monks don't start using return and stuff, i'm not gonna complain

(and even if they did, i don't think i'd complain

)

Cebe · Jan 15, 2007, 09:51 AM // 09:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akaraxle

YOU NEED MORE NUKING.

If the friggin medic is running around it makes him pretty hard to nuke since projectiles miss him and he runs out of AoEs. My approach is to set up my heroes with snares, for example:

Margrid: Crippling Shot / Pin Down
Melonni: Aura of Thorns
Zhed: Ice Spikes / Deep Freeze
Norgu: Imagined Burden / Shared Burden
Acolyte Jin: Pounce (my Jin has a pet - Margrid it set up as interrupt, generally)

Perhaps having a hero go X/A and using Siphon Speed... there are lots to choose from.

These are a must for the bonus on Moddock Crevice. If the stupid medic can't move it's time for him to learn the true meaning of the word "PWND".

Avarre · Jan 15, 2007, 10:14 AM // 10:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

If the friggin medic is running around it makes him pretty hard to nuke since projectiles miss him and he runs out of AoEs.

I'm sorry you consider a flatbow's arcing shot and firestorm to be nukes then...

Use mesmer domination skills. Use simple fire nukes (meteor, fireball, Searing Flames). Use just about anything - the NPCs do not have the ability to outheal even the most marginal of damage.

I haven't noticed the kiting at all - I take aggro (while henching) with my mesmer, target the 'healer' mobs, and blow them up. Nightfall especially brings ridiculous amounts of damage capability with new skills.